Part 2 Introduction:  So, this is part two of my interview with Zoe Moore. If you have not yet got to listen to part one, I highly recommend you go back and do that first because it provides some really important context for this episode. If you have already listened to part one, then please enjoy the conclusion of my interview with Zoe Moore.

Matt Bowles: Well, you work with some of the dopest travel conferences around.  You and I actually met at the Latino Travel Fest earlier this year, big shout out to them. Maverick Show listeners know Vanessa Fondeur, the founder. She has been on the podcast and a number of other people that were hanging out with us there have also been on the Maverick show, Kevin Sandoval, and Alex Jimenez. We had a really dope squad there. But can you share a little bit about your role and connection with the Latino Travel Fest and then what the experience was like this year?

Zoe Moore: Absolutely. Yeah. Shout out to Vanessa. Her energy, her spirit. I just love her. That woman is passionate. She’s determined, and a client that I hope that I get a chance to work with again because of all of her characteristics.

So, with Latino Travel Fest, that relationship started with Nomadness Fest, actually. So, I am an event planner, and I do events as part of my research to make me a better consultant. So, if I know what’s happening with different folks who are organizing events, both as third-party planners or as influencers or content creators, then I can better advocate within the industry. I started this work with Evita Robinson of Nomadness Fest, and Vanessa was a volunteer for Nomadness Fest in Newark.

And at the time, I didn’t know she had Latino World Travelers or a Latino Travel Fest. I just know that she was an amazing volunteer. Everywhere I needed her to be, she was there before I was, or she was there ready to work. And she came to work. She had her hat on, got the T-shirt on, and sneakers on, and she was moving, she busybody, she was gone all the time. And I was like, “Who is this woman?” Like, “Why is she so amazing?” And she would even ask me questions, “Did you go to the restroom? Did you drink water?” And I’m like, oh, she’s me. And so, I was just really impressed with that. And then she ended up reaching out and saying, hey, I don’t know if you know anything about what I do. I have Latino World Travelers, and I have Latino Travel Fest, and I really would love to have your help, and I’ve already got Evita’s blessing.

Evie said it’s cool if we work together. It’s not a conflict of interest. If anything, it’s what Nomadness Fest wants to be. It wants to grow and make sure that it really emphasizes the BIPOC traveler, Black, indigenous people of color, right? And so, there are conferences and festivals that start with every different social identity. With that blessing, Vanessa and I started working together. She brought me out to her home and provided me with the best Airbnb experience ever. Her husband cooked. They just treated me like a queen. It was an amazing experience. And I was like, shucks, if this is what working with you is like, then I’m all for it.

We started to do the site visit, looking around Jersey at different places. And what I’m able to do is really leverage my network to have the conversation about what Latino Travel Fest needs the support, even as a smaller festival with a growing audience, what support it needs from destination management, destination marketing, organization, the city, and things like that. And so, we did a site visit in Elizabeth, New Jersey, met the VP of the Chamber of Commerce there and the lead of their destination marketing organization. They were extremely involved in just making sure we had the resources and the connections. And the site visit was wonderful.

And, you know, initially, Vanessa has really good taste and wanted it to be a continuation of the work that she had done on her own in New York. And I just really tried to help sell Elizabeth as a city that is rich in the Latino culture, very diverse, from Dominican, Peruvian, just all kinds of diversity there. You feel like you’re in a Latin country when you’re walking through Elizabeth. And I just really wanted her to highlight that it’s a place that’s close to her, that’s on her journey to everywhere she wants to travel in the US. And so, yeah, in my role as event manager, I wear many hats in that space. I’m advocating for the city, I’m working with local businesses, helping Vanessa manifest her vision and also learning about the different folks in her audience like you, and figuring out how I can leverage my network to connect you to resources that you need, really learn about the different speakers and their goals, and then also what the challenges are of content creators.

So again, it’s research for me from all aspects, from the organizing aspect, from advocating for those who are often excluded from larger contracts, but just really helping people that I believe in. And both Vanessa and Evita are people that I believe in. I love their determination and their diligence, and they just can’t get rid of me now. So here I am.

Matt Bowles: Well, huge shout out to Nomadness Travel Tribe, Nomadness Fest, and Evita Robinson. Absolutely amazing organization.

And let’s talk about the upcoming Nomadness Fest, because you and I are both going to be there from September 12 to 15th in Charlotte, North Carolina. Can you tell folks what Nomadness is all about just for people that are not familiar with the organization and then what is coming up in September in Charlotte?

Zoe Moore: So Nomadness Travel Tribe, again, it’s a growing organization, right? So, I’m not so much involved with the tribe, but I get to observe that from afar, which is a growing community of people who like to travel in groups or even individual visual travel but going in these group travels to different places like Egypt and Rwanda and having these curated agendas and schedules.

And so out of that, there was a need for individuals who are either in the business of travel, who are new to travel, and are looking for information about passports and whether it is safe to be an expat or different terms even to learn about over-tourism? Right. And so initially, Nomadness Fest was called Audacity Festival. Went through many different iterations online, that pivot that everybody had to do online because of 2020, but prior to that, had some physical events in like Oakland and Memphis. And then I came on board for Newark and Evita reached out to me. We had a lot of the same friends in the network of tourism and things like that. And we were introduced to each other. We talked. She told me what she needed and that she had an amazing team, and I would be brought on to really help, to be a project manager.

And so, did that first year, learned a lot about the organization, about the community, and just a lot of content around educating people in several different verticals. And those verticals do change. This year is media and tech, the leisure traveler and conscious traveler. The content varies, the speakers vary. My first introduction to one of your guests, Kevin Sandoval, was through Nomadness Fest. And I’ve met other speakers who were at Latino Travel Fest, at Nomadness, introduced to different leaders at destination marketing organizations, but just a lot of people who are very knowledgeable about tourism from different perspectives. And Nomadness brings those individuals together to highlight a city. And so, Charlotte in 2024 is that city that’s going to be highlighted. And Charlotte is the nickname for Queen City after Queen Charlotte. That’s a whole another podcast about who Queen Charlotte is.

But Queen City is one of those places that is rapidly growing city. It’s a steep in black culture and just history as well, very community oriented, and also like Atlanta, a major airport where it goes to all kinds of destinations. So just like in Latino Travel Fest and other previous no madness fest. It’s about getting involved with the local convention and visitors Bureau and the Destination marketing organization and really highlighting that city and aligning with their marketing and making sure that we amplify the local community.

Matt Bowles: Well, I want to encourage Maverick show listeners to join us at Nomadness Fest 2024 in Charlotte. We are going to link up the registration link in the show notes for this episode along with a discount code so you can get a special discount for being a Maverick Show listener. So just go to themaverickshow.com, and go to the show notes for this episode. And there you are going to find the link to register for no madness and come hang out with me and Zoe. It’s going to be an amazing time.

I also want to talk to you a little bit about your world travels after the military. You mentioned that when you were in Korea, that really had an impact on you in terms of inspiring and motivating you to see different parts of the world. Can you talk a little bit about the impact of Korea and then your world travel journey, how that began?

Zoe Moore: My world traveler experiences began with a nap, so I was on the train. If anybody knows anything about train systems in places like Japan and Korea, you know, the train systems are amazing. Very clean, very safe, and all that good stuff, right? And so, I’m on the train trying to figure out which direction I’m going if I’m going the right direction. And an older woman who we affectionately called Ajima. Right? Older women are called Ajima was sitting next to me, and she had a pamphlet with white Jesus on the pamphlet, and she was trying to get my attention with this pamphlet.

And then on top of that, she puts the map of the train system, and she opens it up, and she has me look at her, and she points to a place on the map, and then she gives the universal symbol for sleep, right? And I’m like, okay, she’s trying to do some sign language here, map, location, sleep. And she taps me on my shoulder, and she lays her head on my shoulder, and I was like, oh, okay, so you want to take a nap, and I’m supposed to tell you when we reach your stop, I put it all together, right? And so, yes, yeah, you know, she’s shaking her head that. I get it. I get it. So, she literally scoots over to me. Ajima gets close, and she puts her head on my shoulder, and I’m riding along, and I’m looking at her, and everybody is nothing like looking at me. Like, this is a strange thing. It’s like, this is culture. This is what happens. Her stop comes up. I recognize it. I tap her. She stretches. She gets up. She reaches in her pocket, she hands me a chocolate and the pamphlet of white Jesus, and she gets up, and she walks off the train. And I was just like, oh, my goodness. If I can communicate with someone like that without knowing each other’s language, then I can go anywhere.

So, I knew at that point that someone was taking a nap on my shoulder, that I could just learn a lot everywhere that I traveled. And so, since then, of course, I went to Playa de Carmen and Cancun, but I went to Colombia. I went to Cartagena. I went to Getsemani in Colombia, and I loved that experience. I went to Japan. I went to Tokyo. I went to Hiroshima. I’ve been to so many different places all across the US. I do travel a lot as a speaker and a consultant. I’ve been to Ghana. I’ve been to South Africa. But, yeah, I love to travel, because what traveling does to me is it challenges my biases. And those biases come from how we’re educated. And so, I actively seek ways to engage across different cultures and social identities and expose myself to information that you just can’t get in a book.

Matt Bowles: Let’s talk about Ghana, a country that you and I both have a lot of love for. One of my favorite places in the world. We were both there in 2019, albeit in different months during that year. But can you share a little bit, first of all, just about the context of 2019, the year of return, for people that are not familiar with that, what that was, and then share a little bit about the trip that you organized and what your experience was like in Ghana.

Zoe Moore: So, 2019 marked 400 years from the year in which we identified the first Africans were brought over at the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade in 1619. Ghana did a whole campaign, if you would, about the year of return, going to what are labeled as castles, but I referred to as dungeons, which they are dungeons. Going to the very door that my ancestors were ripped from their homes were human trafficked across the transatlantic, going back through that door and returning to be amongst the brothers, the sisters, the uncles, the ancestors there, and celebrating that I am a descendant of the trials and those tribulations. And it was uh, there’s no word. There’s no word that fully describes all the emotions. And I went through a sage ceremony, and that was the best experience that I could have gone through.

And, you know, the advice that I was given after that ceremony was to go talk to my ancestors and hear the message of what my responsibility was from that moment, being at that door, why I was returning to Ghana, and the impact that I could make in being an educator. And I definitely got that message, I have felt that very strongly from that experience.

Matt Bowles: Well, I also want to ask you about your experience in Colombia that you just mentioned. And I know that on that trip, you actually went with your son Jourden, who you’ve mentioned before as well in this podcast. So, can you share a little bit about how old he was during that trip and then where you went and what the experience was like in Colombia, but also traveling with your son?

Zoe Moore: We went with my cousin Aubrey, and shout out to Aubrey and Watson, who works at Nike. We love you, cuz we went on that trip, a family trip that we try to do, like every year. And we wanted somewhere warm during what is typically colder months in the US. And so, we went to Cartagena. We did stay there nine days, and in hindsight, we would have traveled a little bit more around. I didn’t really do a lot of research. I’m kind of that person. It’s research fatigue, and decision fatigue when I’m traveling, because I do it so much in my day to day, and I just want it just to go. So, we stayed nine days. We picked a very beautiful Airbnb at a high rise. Our host was amazing. It was like our balcony was floating on the ocean. The host was a chef of sorts, and so she went grocery shopping, and she cooked for us. And what we did really every day was just walk a lot. We just explored history, different cafes, and different parts of town.

Just sat and watched people and how they celebrated the holidays, you know, just that the nightlife, that there were always people out seeing how tourists got around. I would definitely go back to Colombia also learn about the history of Palenque. It was the first group of enslaved Africans that escaped and created their own free town. Didn’t get a chance to actually travel out to the area, but when you see those women in the red, yellow, and blue with the fruit baskets above their head, they’re connected to that history. And that’s something that I never knew until I went out to Colombia.

Matt Bowles: So how old was your son, Jourden, during this trip? Approximately. And how was the dynamic of traveling together? What was that experience like?

Zoe Moore: So, the dynamic is our relationship. We are thick as business partners, you know, we do hang out a lot. He actually likes his mom as a friend. That’s the homie. And taking him to different places, both domestically and internationally, is one of those accomplishments that I’ve always wanted to achieve as a mom. Being a single mother, his dad is actively involved in his life, but I’m still that single mother who has to make sure that I inspire my child. So, he was 17 or thereabouts at the time, and so he’ll be 20 next month, which is quite amazing that I have a 20-year-old, because I only look like I’m 21, you know, look at the pictures on LinkedIn.

Matt Bowles: Truth. Truth.

Zoe Moore: And so, he keeps me young, and I just, like, you know, when we walk, and we explore and trying to learn the language and one of the things that we first learned in Colombia, Alita. Alitas. To Tienas Alitas. Do you want wings? Do you want buffalo wings? And we’re like, no. We want Colombian food. We don’t want wings. We don’t want pizza. We don’t want Amber Gesa. We don’t want any of that. We want Colombian food. And I think that was our biggest challenge, is as obvious tourists. It was like, we want to eat what is native to the country. Like, take us there. You know, take us to where the people eat. But what you find out when you travel is that just, like, when we’re in America, people don’t want American food. We don’t eat hamburgers and fries all the time, so people want to try other foods as well. And so that probably was our biggest challenge, is just finding more locally prepared food and really getting out of the touristy area.

So, we were able to find that food in Getsemani. We went to the mud bath volcano. That was super cool. He’s still working on him being adventurous. He’s, you know, a little timid in some ways. Like, I don’t want to die is one of his things. And also, is it sanitary? And this. And I’m like, just get in. You know, if we die this way, at least we can say we died having fun. Like, who cares? Like, just enjoy your life. And so, you know, really pushing and challenging him at a young age and just exposing him. So a great experience. We also went to Japan recently, too, so we travel a lot together.

Matt Bowles: Let’s talk about that. Your experience together in Japan. I think the first question I want to ask you about it is your experience in Hiroshima. I tell all Americans that there are a couple of places in the world if they’re able to go, that they should go. One of them actually is Cape coast in Ghana, because I think that is important for every single American to go there and understand that history. The other place is Hiroshima in Japan, which I think is important for every American to go to and learn that history if they can. Can you share a little bit about your experience going there, you and Jordan?

Zoe Moore: Japan really helped me understand the book Caste by Isabel Wilkerson. Okay, so if you’ve heard of the movie “Origin” by Ava DuVernay, in the movie, she keeps using the term “connective tissue”. And the connective tissue is the connection between the caste system all over the world. So, she talks about Nazi Germany, she talks about civil rights movement, or the emancipation proclamation, slavery and history and racism in America and in India, the caste system is in regard to classism.

So going back to my experience in Japan, going to Hiroshima was one of those places, because I am an army veteran. I wanted to go to Hiroshima to understand that history. I wanted to be on the ground where the atomic bomb hit in one of those locations. And I wanted to see the information that was being told to the Japanese community and even to those tourists who come from all over the world to go to Hiroshima.

And what I really learned the most, and this was through a conversation with Jordan, who was actively on Google and taking pictures like, he’s deep into history too. And one of his things was saying, I’m actually on the location that I’ve read about in my history books. But what that experience did for both of us in connection to “Cast” and the movie was the connective tissue. Understanding all the world powers at play, Japan, Germany, World War II  and everything, and how so much unfolded, how much war has to do with money moves, and how the people are casualties of war, and they don’t even know what government decisions are being made, but how much their lives are not taken into account when there are moves being made at the government level.

And that centered on imperialism, that centered on trying to be number one as far as a government power. You know, just being there on the ground just made me dig deeper. Again, that curiosity that is necessary to start thinking critically about what you’ve been told, what you think you know, versus what really happened. And it was necessary for us to go walk around, read the different stories, read the young men who were involved. And again, like myself, having been to Iraq and seen things that no human should ever see, those young men were half my age and seeing things, especially after the aftermath, people melting, their skin melting off, and things that humans just shouldn’t see. So having cried there in Hiroshima, listening to those stories, and being able to relate and see that connective tissue was a very powerful experience.

Matt Bowles: And part of the emotional impact that it had on me as well, when I went, was the fact that today they are encouraging Americans to come in and to learn about this. And they have set up a peace museum, and they are advocating and committing to try to move towards total global nuclear disarmament and lead the world’s anti-nuclear movement and to use the bombing of Hiroshima for that purpose as a lesson for the world so that it never happens again to anyone. Right. Never again for anyone. And that’s such a powerful lesson.

Zoe Moore: Right. And that right there, there is a beauty in that. It’s saying what you just said that the level of death and destruction that incurred should never, ever happen again anywhere. There should never be mass killing. There should never be genocide. There should never be, to the point, starvation, the cruel and unusual impact and residual of war is no, we just, we cannot do this. It’s not going to happen again. And that message is loud and clear when you go.

Matt Bowles: Absolutely. Well, I also have to ask you about Tokyo, which is one of my all-time favorite cities in the world. And I feel like that’s the type of city where, like, people are like, oh, what’s it like there? Compare it to something else. I’m like, dude, you cannot compare Tokyo to anything. There is no place on the planet like Tokyo. It is its own planet. You just have to go. So, since you have gone, you and Jourden both went, what was your experience and impression of Tokyo?

Zoe Moore: If I have to give a visual because there are people who, for different reasons, are not going to be able to go to Tokyo. It is 100 times the experience of Times Square. It is next level on the lights and the crosswalks and the stores and the food and the people and the fashion. It is the next level, Shibuya Crossing. That is an activation to stand at a crosswalk and watch all these people cross this major. I wouldn’t even call it an intersection, because when you think of an intersection, you think of four ways, right? This is like 25 ways.

Matt Bowles: Right. They call it the scramble crossing.

Zoe Moore: Right. It’s wild. But we went up to the tallest location in Tokyo and stood up there and saw the whole city where everybody was as small as a seed. And just walking around is an experience. You don’t really need this particular agenda. You can just walk, and every corner has something from ramen to Mario Kart to history. You can walk into a temple and then see a Mario Kart store right next to it and then go have ramen for lunch and dumplings across the street. It’s just an amalgamation of culture. And then what I love the most is that I didn’t feel ostracized in Japan.

Like, I didn’t feel like the black woman in Japanese spaces. I felt like a person enjoying Tokyo and its experiences, and I felt welcomed. When I went into the malls, the stores, I got saluted several times, because, you know, I think the assumption is that if you’re black in Japan, that you’re probably there for the military. So, the older men were saluting me. Like, they would pause with their cane, especially in different smaller areas in Japan. They would salute me, and I’d be like, “Oh, okay, hey, to you, too”. And my son says every now and again, he’ll come up to me. He’d be like, “Mom, we went to Japan earlier this year. You really took me to Japan”. So, Tokyo was just, it was amazing. Although Tokyo isn’t my favorite city in Japan.

Matt Bowles: So, what is your favorite city in Japan?

Zoe Moore: Hands down, my favorite city in Japan is Kamakura, the beach, big Buddha, just the peace that’s there. It’s a coastal town. Again, I want to draw this visual for people. I’m from California. If you’ve ever been out to Capitola, it has that kind of vibe. That coastal town has small little ice cream stores and pizza and Japanese food. Then you have the big Buddha, which is a huge tourist attraction. But then you can walk out to the coast, and there was a moment, sometimes, like I told you, my son is a little hesitant to go to new places, although he loves to explore. I was like, “I smelled the beach. It’s nearby”. He was like, “No, it’s probably like a 30, 40-minute walk”.  And I was like, no, it’s right down the street. I promise you, looking at the map, the beach is over there.

So, we walked through the little houses, and all of a sudden, bam! Beach along the coast. And it was gorgeous. And I’m collecting shells. And then I start looking back towards the neighborhood and see all these restaurants, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, I want to go have a meal. I want to have lunch over there overlooking the beach. So, we crossed the street, and the restaurants were on top of all these different homes.

So, we go up, and it feels like we’re entering somebody’s home.  You know, you take off your shoes, you sit close to the floor. And we had the best Thai food in Japan overlooking the beach. And I didn’t want to leave that restaurant. I just love the town. The transportation to get in was super easy. It was like a suburb that it’s intermingled in. And I just felt like if I were to go back to Japan, either to get an Airbnb or even to live. I would live in Kamakura.

Matt Bowles: Well, I will tell you this. I have been to Japan three separate times. I have spent over three months, cumulatively, in Japan, and I have not yet been to Kamakura. So, you have just pushed that right up to the very top of my list, because there is, for sure, another Japan trip in the works very soon. I just keep going back. Can never stay away from Japan for too long.

I want to ask you now just sort of a general parenting question about how you have thought as a parent about intentionally incorporating international travel into Jourden’s life. And at this point in his travel journey, what impact do you think it’s had on him?

Zoe Moore: You know, I always tell this story of when I remember Jourden first falling in love with international travel or just travel altogether. And I’d actually just finished an event for Glo and Tamo, this was the sisterhood summit, and it was in Puerto Rico. And I got that gig to do that event when I was in Ghana. So, all my international travel is connected.

Glo was friends with the founders of Toasted Life and met her there. She asked me to do sisterhood Sunday, go to Puerto Rico. And then after the event, I fly Jourden out, and he was like, “Well, why don’t you fly to the States, come get me, and we fly to Puerto Rico together?” I’m like, “No, I’m already in Puerto Rico. Just fly to me”. He was like, “What if I get lost in the airport?”, and I’m like, “Speak Spanish. You’re in Spanish class right now.” He was like, “I don’t know any Spanish. And da da da da, and I’m going to get lost, and somebody’s going to kidnap me”. And I’m like, “Bruh, get your life and get on that plane, and you’re coming to Puerto Rico”.

So, we find each other at the baggage claim. He’s safe in his sound, you know, and his eyes are wide open, you know, and he’s clinging to me. And what year was this? This had to be in, I don’t know, 14 or 15 I think he was 15. And so that night, we ate dinner. I’m having mofongo, and he’s having beans and rice and a steak. I don’t know what he’s having, but whatever he’s eating, he’s just like. His eyes are opening wide, like, this is delicious. Oh, my gosh, I’m in Puerto Rico. But he’s still kind of clinging to me.

So then, like, the next day, we went out to the fortresses, all that area right along the coast, and it was this big grassy area with all the walls that are built up with all the history of Puerto Rico being colonized. And he steps ahead of me, and I remember when his shoulders just settled back and the air hit him, and it was just like, I’m in Puerto Rico. I did it. I flew here to meet my mom. I’m in Puerto Rico. I’m learning history. And then when I look back at pictures, he was just everywhere, taking pictures, reading, googling. Like, this wasn’t a young teenager who was on Snapchat, you know, just talking with friends randomly. He was researching where he was, researching where he wanted to go next, researching where he wanted to eat, and what monument he wanted to walk.

And at that moment when his shoulders dropped back, I was like, we’re on to something. And now sometimes I feel like, okay, well, your 20th birthday is coming up. Is there a trip that you want to plan to go on with your friends? Maybe. Is this Vegas year? Is this Miami year? He was like, no, where are we going? And I’m like, we, like, you still want to hang out with me? So, yeah, he actually likes traveling with me. So, shout out to Jourden Moore. He probably wants to go to Cairo, Egypt, and Florence, Italy. He actually likes the Amalfi coast.

He thinks he knows how to make Italian food. Like, the other day, he was making some chicken Alfredo. He turned on Italian music while he was making chicken Alfredo. So, yeah, world travel is better than school. I say that.

Matt Bowles: Listen, those are not bad picks. I went to the Amalfi coast for my 40th birthday, and it was quite epic. I’ve also lived in Cairo for about a year.

Zoe Moore: Really?

Matt Bowles: If you guys are ready to plan that trip, definitely hit me up. And I got you for that one.

How about for you, Zoe? When you think back on all of your travels, how have all of your travels impacted you as a person?

Zoe Moore: Oh, man, there are levels to that travel. I mean, I expressed it earlier. It is better than school. It is better than anything that you can read in a book. To have that experience, it has made me want to just really explore history. I love history. The history of the culture, how the language evolved, the food, where the culinary, why certain cuisines exist, and how the history of colonization impacted both the language and the food.

It makes me a curious person who just has this growth mindset that constantly seeks ways to grow, challenge what I think I know, and expose myself to different information. Travel has shown me that the sky is not the limit. Those limiting beliefs come from the environments that we grow up in, and we have to be intentional about getting new information, who we’re getting it from, the firsthand experience versus someone’s perception of it.

So, someone can give me their perception of where they traveled, but not until I go there myself and draw my own conclusions and also read about the history of the people who experienced it. Do I really learn? Yeah. Travel is that medium to the past, to the future, to the present. It connects me to people. It helps me to embrace the differences. It’s so much. It’s everything.

Matt Bowles: Well, I think that is an amazing place to end the main portion of this interview. And at this point, Zoe, are you ready to move in to the lightning round?

Zoe Moore: Oh, sorry. Sound effects. Yes, I am ready to move into the lightning round.

Matt Bowles: Let’s do it.

All right, what is one book that you would recommend that people should read?

Zoe Moore: Said it already. ‘Caste’ by Isabel Wilkerson to understand the connective tissue throughout our collective history.

Matt Bowles: All right, who is one person currently alive today that you’ve never met that you’d most love to have dinner with? Just you and that person for an evening of dinner and conversation?

Zoe Moore: I’m hanging out with Erykah Badu. I just got to. I got to smoke some trees and talk to her about just her philosophies.

Matt Bowles: Amazing. All right. Knowing everything that you know now, if you could go back in time and give one piece of advice to your 18-year-old self, what would you say to 18-year-old Zoe?

Zoe Moore: Keep going. Don’t change a thing. Yeah, I’m all right.

Matt Bowles: All right. Of all the places you have now traveled to, what are three of your favorite destinations you would most recommend, that other people should definitely check?

Zoe Moore: Definitely. Ghana, Johannesburg, and Cape Town, all in Africa. I just want to go back to Africa. And I want to go to every single country and city. Africa! Africa!

Matt Bowles: All right, well, that leads us to the next question, which is your Bucket List Destinations, of all of those places that you do want to still go to, what are the top three on your list right now that you have not yet been to? You’d most love to see?

Zoe Moore: Kenya, Cairo, and Rwanda.

Matt Bowles: Love that I have been to all three. So, for sure, hit me up when you are ready to plan those trips.

All right, Zoe, we have now come to the most important question of this interview. I’m about to ask you to name your top five hip-hop Emcees of all time. But before you name your five, can you just share a little bit about what hip-hop means to you and why you love hip-hop.

Zoe Moore: Hip-hop is education. Hip-hop gives me insight and perspective to the lived experiences of people in neighborhoods who are underserved, who are talented and poetic. Hip-hop, to me, is education. It has enlightened me and educated me.

Matt Bowles: All right, Zoe, who are your top five?

Zoe Moore: Top five. Queen Latifah, Remy Ma, MC Lyte, Bahamadia, and Rakim.

Matt Bowles: Amazing. What a fantastic list. We’re going to drop the mic on that one and call this interview complete. That is an amazing closeout.

All right, Zoe, I want you to let folks know how they can first of all find you and follow you on social media. But also, can you share a little bit more about the consulting training event services that you offer? And then just clarify, you know, who your ideal customer would be in case there’s some folks listening that would be interested in your services. How can people contact you and work with you?

Zoe Moore: All right, growwithzomo.com is the website. Jourden is actually the one who’s working on that website through his company, Jem Innovations. So, give him a shout-out. You can find us both on Instagram. I’m Grow with Zomo. Him Jem Innovations. I’m most active on LinkedIn, though. So, when you hear my real name, my government name, Chiriga, you can look up Chiriga and “Zoe” in quotations, last name Moore. And you will find that I am a strategic EDI consultant, and my services are consulting, educator, and event planner. When it comes to my ideal client in those different sectors, I’m really looking for, say, when I’m doing an event, people who have a social mission. So, I have clients who are serving underserved communities or who are advocating for the amplification of underserved communities. Again, going back to my thesis and my master’s program, it’s, you know, strengthening urban sustainability one event at a time. So that’s the kind of event that I look for.

So, when it comes to consulting. I’m looking for associations, associations in the meetings and events industry, festivals, venue associations, because I find that that’s where the different businesses, different planners, companies go. So, they are members of those associations. I get the opportunity to speak there and then I get hired or brought on to teach workshops and education. So, although I have been a keynote speaker, I’ve been a keynote speaker at peer Michigan Governor’s conference. It’s not my preference because I like to educate. I like workshops. I need more than 45 minutes on stage. I need to be at your tables with whiteboards and notebooks. And then when it comes to consulting, those are three months, six months, nine months, or a whole year project, or even longer. But it’s really working with committees, ergs who are developing a strategy for their organization and trying to achieve goals that they want to measure, and they want to make sustainable as core to their overall business strategy.

So yes, growwithzomo.com is the website. Find me on LinkedIn. Instagram is more just pictures. And on Facebook, I just engage with family the most.

Matt Bowles: We are going to link all of that up in the show notes, folks, so you can just go to one place at themaverickshow.com, and go to the show notes for this episode. There you are going to find direct links to all the ways to contact and follow Zoe, as well as direct links to everything that she has recommended and everything else that we have discussed in this episode, including how you can get your discounted ticket to the upcoming Nomadness Fest to hang out with me and Zoe in person. So, check that out, come through.

Zoe, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Zoe Moore: My pleasure.  Meeting you at Latino Travel Fest, now, I’m a very curious person. I’m like, who is this white guy? Why is he here? What is his thing? Who is he? And it was just so easy to talk to you and your passion, your knowledge. And I was just like, I want to know more about this guy because I’m the person…I see the white guy, but I’m like, who are you beyond what I can see? What’s your history? What are your values? Let’s have that conversation. And it was hard to stop our conversation. I was like, I got to go back to work. Please stay in contact with me and tell me your favorite Emcees.

Matt Bowles: Yes, absolutely. And it’ll continue in person at Nomadness Fest. All right, good night, everybody.